************ Topic 12 Mon Apr 22, 1991 J.COLLINS5 [GeojoeC] (Forwarded) Sub: 8 mhz processors for the CBM 8 bits! I have been trying to get several Apple Hardware developers to support the Commodore. Specifically for speed up! This is an editied exchange I had with the online Rep for ZIP Technologies here on GEnie! 57 message(s) total. ************ ------------ Category 2, Topic 12 Message 35 Mon Jan 04, 1993 C.ISAACSON1 [Dadd] at 23:35 EST do you really think that you will ever come up with a 128 or 64 accellerator? 8s ------------ Category 2, Topic 12 Message 36 Tue Jan 05, 1993 C128.JBEE at 10:56 EST I am 100% certain on the C-64 and almost sure on the C-128. ------------ Category 2, Topic 12 Message 37 Wed Jan 06, 1993 F.OGLE [Color 64 BBS] at 18:29 EST Folks at the local CUGs here are screaming, Jbee - They want to know what is up with the accelerators! ------------ Category 2, Topic 12 Message 38 Thu Jan 07, 1993 C128.JBEE at 00:14 EST I am going ahead with them :X Once I have something concrete to post I will, which will probably be before the end of the month. As a few of the "insiders" know I haven't exactly been sitting still, things just take time and I don't want to post details unless they are concrete. Though I guarantee once I do people will be pleased :) ------------ Category 2, Topic 12 Message 39 Thu Jan 07, 1993 CBM-MARK at 22:38 EST Does anybody know if JBEE *ever* 'sits still'? :D We'll all be patiently (or otherwise :) waiting for you to release the latest info when you have it! ~~Mark~~ ------------ Category 2, Topic 12 Message 40 Fri Jan 15, 1993 B.ENNIS1 [Torby] at 02:47 EST ThThe president of my local user group sent in his $50 on this accellerator. I can't say that he has been optimistic about ever seeing anything come out of it. Is there anything I can tell him that is of any good? ------------ Category 2, Topic 12 Message 41 Fri Jan 15, 1993 C128.JBEE at 13:49 EST Not until the end of the month. ------------ Category 2, Topic 12 Message 42 Thu Jan 28, 1993 C128.JBEE at 19:31 EST Bil Herd a former Commodore engineer has agreed to help me produce the speed-up board for the C-128. Actually, Bil is the one that helped design both the C-128 and REUs (sys 32800,123,45,6). I expect to have him here shortly under the CBM-PRESS account. I will also have a few other experts helping out on the project, some which are already online ;) Once we have everything planned out and the directions set for the design goals I will post more here and have a RTC. I would say at this point it is a go :) ------------ Category 2, Topic 12 Message 43 Thu Jan 28, 1993 F.OGLE [Color 64 BBS] at 19:49 EST John, that's great news - I hope all goes well! ------------ Category 2, Topic 12 Message 44 Thu Jan 28, 1993 CBM-MARK at 22:54 EST Hurray! Sounds like it's one step closer to completion, JBEE. Good Luck! Hope I don't have to work when you have the RTC :( ~~Mark~~ ------------ Category 2, Topic 12 Message 45 Fri Jan 29, 1993 C128.JBEE at 01:56 EST I hope not either :) ------------ Category 2, Topic 12 Message 46 Fri Jan 29, 1993 HOWIE-CBM at 02:13 EST This is good news!!! Now, if we can also persuade Bil to relate a bit of Commodore lore while he is up and about, we are all in for a huge treat. And, it is not all that difficult to persuade Bil. :) But I guess we should also let him have a spare moment or two so that he can do a bit of design too. Howie ------------ Category 2, Topic 12 Message 47 Tue Feb 02, 1993 M.LESLIE5 [Warp Sled] at 01:01 EST That's great news! Just let me know when to get in line for it! :) ------------ Category 2, Topic 12 Message 48 Tue Feb 02, 1993 C.OGLE2 [breadstick] at 05:56 EST Say, JeBEE, if the outlook on the ZIP CHIP looks okay at this point, are you still wanting people to send in deposits? Or are you going to wait and see how the pworojusect goes first? ------------ Category 2, Topic 12 Message 49 Tue Feb 02, 1993 C128.JBEE at 21:17 EST I don't want any more deposits or survey sheets and have been returning the few stray deposits that have arrived (except for one from Sweden because I know the guy had to go to a lot of trouble to send it). I am going to delete the "zip" survey I uploaded in a few minutes. ------------ Category 2, Topic 12 Message 50 Tue Feb 02, 1993 D.WITMER2 [Snogpitch] at 23:34 EST Looks like I've gotten into this topic a little bit late. Is there a way to get on a waiting list, since at this point deposits are no longer being accepted? I've got a technical question of sorts. How does the speed up affect such programs as telecommunication programs that involve timing to work, such as for up/downloading, etc? Seems to me there could be a potential problem using existing programs. Several of the local Commodore boards have been discussing this with who knows what facts they have to back them up, and I'm dying to find out how much software would be instantly compatible with the zip. ------------ Category 2, Topic 12 Message 51 Wed Feb 03, 1993 C128.JBEE at 04:00 EST There is no waiting list. Anything that uses the 1mhz bus and CIAs for timing will be okay, software that uses ML loops for timing will run too fast? Since my tests with Dialogue 128 downloading at 9600 were 95%+ eff on the GEnie 9600 WATS line I do not see where the board will speed up or improve any telecom session worth mentioning or to justify purchasing the cartridge. Where it will make a big improvement is in programs with a lot of processor overhead like graphic applications (Basic 8) and things like ARC. Word processors will run a lot faster too since the VDC can accept data far faster than the 8502 can deliver it. The most exciting thing (for me) will be the ability to run applications in compiled languages such as C as fast as ML applications run now. That will open up the possibility of a lot of new software easily ported from other machines. Of course things like Geos will fly :) ------------ Category 2, Topic 12 Message 52 Wed Feb 03, 1993 CBM-ED [e.g.bell] at 09:50 EST Uh Oh! JB> Anything that uses the 1mhz bus and CIAs for timing will be JB> okay, software that uses ML loops for timing will run too JB> fast? Since my tests with Dialogue 128 downloading at 9600 JB> were 95%+ eff on the GEnie 9600 WATS line I do not see JB> where the board will speed up or improve any telecom I know I use the jiffy timers at 160-162 for timing loops in BellTerm and RTCMaster, including/especially for transfers. Or will that be left at the 60/second rate too? Currently that set of addresses is updated by the system IRQ. But if the IRQ is significantly changed wrt timing, will it cause other stuff to have problems. I am not asking like I know the answer.... I don't... just curious. ------------ Category 2, Topic 12 Message 53 Wed Feb 03, 1993 C128.JBEE at 16:31 EST I won't know either until we have a working prototype :) ------------ Category 2, Topic 12 Message 54 Wed Feb 03, 1993 R.KNOP1 [Rob Knop] at 21:54 EST The normal system IRQ is triggered by the screen raster, rather than by counting a certain number of system clock cycles. Since the screen refresh rate can't be changed by the ZIP board (or else all of our monitors will no longer be good enough :), I would imagine that the IRQ's will still come at 1 per 60 seconds. Which means you can get a lot more done between interrupts, and a lot more done in an IRQ routine :). Since the jiffy clock is updated by the IRQ routine, if my imagination that IRQ's will still come at 1/60 seconds is correct, then software that uses the ZP jiffy clock for timing will still probably work just fine. By a similar token, terminal programs should still work fine. When a byte comes in on the RS232 port, it triggers a NMI, and the actual byte receiving is done in that NMI. Thus, the rate that byte triggers come in should not be affected by the processor speed. And, assuming a well written terminal program, which makes sure it isn't overfilling the buffer, there shouldn't be any problem with sending bytes, either. (How does George Hug deal with timing?) Again, the terminal program will have many more clock cycles to process each byte that comes in... visualize some pretty impessive online decompression. Realtime GIF viewing, anybody? :D -Rob ------------ Category 2, Topic 12 Message 55 Thu Feb 04, 1993 CBM-ED [e.g.bell] at 03:14 EST Rob: I know the 128 IRQ is tied to the raster interrupt, but I don't think the one in the C64 is done that way. As for normal RS232 i/o you are probably on the money. I'm talking about file transfer protoocols where an event is timed.... i.e. waiting for the SOH byte in all of the Xmodem derivative protocols (Xmodem CRC/Checksum/1K/ Ymodem). If the update rate of the addresses 160-162 are changed that is going to affect any of these protocols. George hug uses a countdown timer with a different calibration from the standard resident routines. That is not the whole picture, but again, my concern was never with the garden variety i/o, which is little more than a glorified file-handling function (my opinion) and should respond well to the speed-up. I was just concerned about things that used the Jiffy timer. If the interrupts are controlled at 60 per second this is probably all moot and as you say, there will be lots more time to do things between the interrupts. ------------ Category 2, Topic 12 Message 56 Tue Feb 09, 1993 C128.JBEE at 20:37 EST Speed-up board update: Dennis Jarvis, the author of Basic 7.0 Internals by Abacus, an expert on both the DOS and OS for the Commodores, who also worked on the Turbo Master, will also be working on the new speed-up board. Dennis will be our debugger and will be the one modifying the operating system as needed and offering his expert advice. A good customer who is an EE and also runs his own consulting business will be doing the board work (soldering, chip insertion, etc). So we have the team, we just have to rough out the plan :) Any suggestions for the name for the new board would be appreciated. ------------ Category 2, Topic 12 Message 57 Wed Feb 10, 1993 HOWIE-CBM at 05:48 EST JBEE, A name? That's easy... We already have a BVUNZIP. So why not a JBEE Board? :) Howie ------------ REPly ?